The Roman Catholic Archbishop of Port-of-Spain, Monsignor Joseph Harris, is flexing his muscles to prevent the whittling down of the role of the church in education in T&T. His Grace feels some people in authority would be glad to see the church keep quiet on certain things, while others would like the opposite in order to obtain personal benefits. The 71-year-old Archbishop is steering clear of the e-mail bacchanal on which he commented last month and which caused, according to him, an unexpected furore.
Q: Your Grace, the immediate past prime minister of T&T Patrick Manning, promised to join the clergy on demitting his political office. Do you have any plans to become a politician at the end of your religious stewardship?
A: (Stifling a laugh at his Flood Street, St Clair, office, Wednesday afternoon) No. And I would tell my friends if ever I get involved in politics to commit me to St Ann’s. I have no intention. But apart from that the canon law doesn’t allow us to get into public office even when we retire.
Didn’t you inadvertently dip into the political pool with your recent pronouncements on matters political including the e-mail controversy?
Well, it all depends on how you define politics; its proper definition is the search for the common good...
It’s the first time many of us are hearing this definition of what is a very emotive topic and isn’t this a bit difficult for the average citizen to comprehend?
All of us are political, and if we are to survive as human beings we have to create the atmosphere in which all people can enjoy the good things that God has given to us in this world.
But…?
Hold on. There is a difference with partisan politics…that is what I will not get involved with at all.
You have done something that is not exactly common with our clergy, although some have indeed ventured into the politics. With your recent outburst…?
Well, I wouldn’t call it an outburst. I was preaching a homily, and one of the complaints is that the church is irrelevant and if you are preaching a homily and if you want to be relevant, you have to frame it in what is happening at the moment, so that you can apply God’s word to the situation to see how it can be resolved.
Or weren’t you trying to be controversial?
(Glancing at Raphael, head bowed, with eyes peering over the rim of his glasses) I was not trying to make controversial headlines; I had no intention of making headlines. In fact, I was speaking to my flock and I was very surprised with the entire furore.
I don’t want to put you on the spot, Your Grace, but do you think our politicians are following the course of the common good, or do they have ulterior motives?
(Hands clasping his tummy below his pants waist) I will not get into the motives why politicians act in the way that they do and many of them really think that they are doing what is best. But at times, when the situation warrants it, I think all religious leaders have to speak about what is right and what is wrong...
But Your Grace….?
And, let me add, without getting into partisan politics. There has always been this debate as to whether the clergy should actively be involved in the politics even to make the most mundane statement. There are some people who would like the church of course to remain locked up in the sacristy and get involved with nothing. There are other people who want the church to be involved in things for their benefit.
Such as?
There are people who think the church should not be engaged in education, for example, in health care or social works.
Isn’t it surprising, Your Grace, that there is that sort of thinking in this day and age?
(Furrowed brow); Even though the church is involved in it and there are people who would wish the church were not. And that the Government, whichever one is in office, should be in charge totally of education.
Is that the position of most governments?
Well, and more people will tell you that rules are being made and created which would seem to suggest that the church should not be.
Here in T&T?
(Eyes closed and nodding in the affirmative) Yes. Yes.
Are you fearful that there might be a trend in this direction?
We will always work against it, we will always work to ensure that people have a right to decide how they want their children educated and whom they want to educate their children.
At times you see rules being applied or being made which would seem to want to limit the role of churches.
Let me put you on the spot: can I get an example of this happening at this time?
(Chuckling) You want to put me on the spot?
At the moment we are having problems in the placing of teachers in our schools. Many of them are understaffed.
We have spoken about it we have made representations and we will continue to make representations. When that happens (understaffing) we cannot deliver the quality of education we would like to deliver.
Is this a deliberate policy on the part of the administration?
I don’t know if it is deliberate or not, but the fact of the matter is that many of our schools are understaffed. I don’t want to say there are sinister motives. I am saying our schools are understaffed and something has to be done, and done quickly, if we are to deliver the type of education we need to deliver. Anglican schools are also affected. I don’t know about the government schools because that’s not my purview. I don’t want to talk about that.
Putting you again on the spot, is this something deliberate?
(Vigorously protesting): Again, I will not ascribe sinister motives to anyone, but I am saying to you that it is a problem for us at the moment and it must be fixed.
How long this has been in existence?
(A heavy sigh) Well since I have been Archbishop of Port-of-Spain it has been there.
And you are still reluctant to say it is something sinister?
(A cautionary tone) I am not saying it is something very sinister. Be very careful...I don’t want to ascribe motives, but that is what is happening...understaffed schools.
The ministry has said it would like all schools to be deemed so-called prestige schools. Do you think that is a result of this …?
Well, let me put it this way: all schools deliver the best education possible. All schools.
Getting back to the politics, this e-mail thing. One party is in office, the other is trying to get into office…?
(Interrupting with a firm voice); I am not getting into partisan politics, whatever… something was wrong.
Are you happy with the pace of the investigations?
I am not a technical person, I am not an IT person. That is not my competency and I don’t want to go along a road where my competency does not lie.
You are not obliged to give a response one way or the other, but do you have any idea which side may be...
(Again interrupting in a stern manner) I don’t and I am not interested (laughing aloud) Mr Raphael, you will not get me involved in that. I am not taking sides in this. Let those who are in charge of the investigations do their work.
You did say politics was the search for the common good. So you believe enough is being done by the authorities to get a handle on this untenable situation?
I really believe there is one serious problem in the country, and that is how many of our young people leave school functionally illiterate, and that problem has to be solved.
At home or at school?
Both. If a young man leaves school functionally illiterate the possibilities of a job are few and far between, and so it is a question of self-confidence—a whole host of things. People have said to me that the only person who makes some of these young people feel good about themselves is the gang leader.
Is the church losing the war to the gang leaders?
(One hand scratching the top of his head) I don’t know if it is the church or the society. The church can only do what it is meant to do; the church can teach, preach, it can go out there and try to do things to help…
Is the church failing in this common good, in the context of the high murder rate?
I don’t know if you mean the church—and by church I mean all religions—to a large extent… to some extent, people are not listening...
Has the church lost its moral authority, when you hear some of the infractions being committed by the clergy, more so abroad?
(A sombre countenance): The church has gone through a bad period, which has been overblown in the media. I think it has been singled out—and I am not excusing what some people in the church have done. But it should never have happened in the Boy Scouts either, or schools. It should never happen. The church did not act seriously enough to eradicate a whole host of things.